Right, OK, you are wrong. AronRa is also weighing in on RR’s side? I’ll just repeat that this isn’t my fight because it doesn’t hurt me plus I don’t want to mansplain to women. I’m sure we all learned something very useful from it. This would mean that someone raped cannot report that rape because some stupid person somewhere doesn’t distinguish between an accusation and a conviction. Many in the ACA, such as Jen and Tracie, complained strenuously, which eventually lead to Tracie, Jen and few others to leave the ACA and stop hosting AXP. “born out of malice?” Opinions based on quotes from rationality rules, other critics, research…. Thus, I think, and probably many others think, that you’re being a little ridiculous with your “criticisms that use these two magic words are SILENCING” argument. I will miss Tracie, Jen and the others. https://andreasavester.com/facebook-hates-transgender-people-or-why-i-got-forbidden-from-having-a-facebook-account/, By the way, as an agender or genderqueer person, I have decided not to get the bottom surgery. It’s up to me to decide. Whenever cis people tell me that I must get a list of medical interventions before I’m allowed to use male pronouns, that’s abusive. This is a personal weblog. But what those differences are, how large they are, to which sex or sexes they pertain, these are all dramatically dependent on culturally specific choices a society makes. Then more tactics could be seen as “silencing” because you never know what might piss off the boss. I’ll add that quite frankly, despite your statement of good intentions your position IS transphobic particularly here, since you are essentially arguing that the rights of trans people should be curtailed because non-trans people might abuse the law in some way. I went to bed so I missed a lot of this conversation but I did want to respond to several things in your response directed towards me. Here: Asserting “your actions in this case are racist”? Should she not be allowed to play basketball because she had an unfair advantage over the other women who were only 5:8? Here’s a horrifying point. This also, by the way, eliminates Tuvix’s concern: I think looking at effect, not intent leads to exactly the same sort of problem that you get when religious people call something ‘sacred’ and then calling you names if you dare to question it. So it seems pretty reasonable it should be a problem when atheists do it too. However, a much better approach would be to reply to one of my comments on Ed Brayton’s blog at patheos. Sorry, I’m out of touch. That’s probably a bad plan, since we can’t actually “know” what’s in someone’s heart besides plasma, lymphocytes, and red blood cells. If there’s a prize pool, and if they think that they’re better than the women athletes, some men would try. you should probably be openly lamenting how anti-trans arguments have harmed feminism, feminists, and the cause of women’s opportunity & equality within your organization. I’m reminded of the “one drop of blood” rule used by racists to determine who was a true white person and whom to exclude. Cool story bro. Dare you acknowledge this to yourself? No cis-woman could place 9th in a not gender segregated competition where only the best participated. This was what’s known as a “friendly” game, which means the USWNT was not trying to win. As you can notice, I’m not neatly fitting into the category defined as a “trans male.” Still, I’m definitely not a cis woman either. With their regulations, cis people are attempting to deny me the right to live as I see fit. All it does it make it harder to criticize people when they genuinely support unjust social power disparities. It’s reasonable in a deeply transphobic society. For it to be transphobic, that must mean that it’s at least factually wrong (or born out of malice), right? […] It is entirely possible to do/say things that are homophobic/transphobic/racist/sexist or just about any other flavor of bigotry without any malicious intent, because it’s not about intent it’s about effect. @32 Erland As such, to consider me in any way, shape or form representing Dr. Myers and his blog or the FtB organization by my post here and now is as ridiculous as suggesting the commenters on the AXP blog are part of the blog administration itself. So far, trans women who are competing in women’s sporting events haven’t flooded them thus forcing cis women out of competition. Or are likability and enforced silence two different things. Since [silencing] is exactly what you are trying to do to me I’ll just feel free to ignore anything else you have to say. What Jen, Tracie and Claire described in the linked video is absolutely horrifying. They abuse and hurt us. Non-believers are also welcome, but calls from believers are prioritized. I know that you cited a counter-example, a man boxer who was assigned female at birth, and who won professional fight. the NBA or the NHL). I do the same when it comes to gays destroying marriage and I do the same now when it comes to trans women in women’s sports. Cis people should just stop policing our bodies. I guess I didn’t read them. So, this is the best picture I can give of his level of “elite”. Calling out bigotry isn’t character assassination. All the people who replied to my point all said that the distinction is important but only replied to me. I mean, we didn’t start testing for drugs until doping was an actual issue, not just because someone said “hey this might be an issue someday.”. First, the HRT that many trans people undergo eliminates most, if not all, of the advantages conferred by testosterone. If you’re making racist choices, you’re racist. Come to find out that prominent hosts left and there being drama with “r@t10na|_ ;) ” yewtewbers involving even bigger fckups. You wouldn’t accuse people of that sort of thing without evidence, would you? Your proposition, then, is unworkable because it’s unenforceable. I am sure, though, that some of the AXP commenters are. Darn it, harpermae! If a bunch of people all lynch someone because their afraid other people will know that deep down they don’t hate black people if they don’t join in, the lynching is racist. Your concern doesn’t include me therefore it’s petty. Now I wonder. So sharing links to /search results/ is problematic – they’d only work for folks similarly logged in or not. Or should we take more seriously the statements by reliably feminist women that these events have been anti-feminist, have had the effect of marginalizing women, have had the effect of making feminist women unwelcome to the point that they abandoned decades long investments of time and energy? I was hoping to get secondary confirmation from other sources, and, well, I now have it in abundance. For now I’m also not using male hormones. Make your weight classes and such and deal with the bigotry that makes separation by sex difficult. Yes, there are average differences in build between sexes and these transfer to different average performance in certain sports. I do get the sense of somone who is looking for the correct information though, ultimately. Not about sports, either. You don’t. And if so, how is freedom of speech preserved by telling people not to say true things? And again, even if all of this were true, I don’t know what to do about it, and even if I did, I’d prefer that the women figure it out, because I don’t want to be mansplaining to women how they should handle their stuff that doesn’t affect me. While it seems you’re saying that “athleticism” isn’t perfectly defined, but is well enough defined for your purposes, there’s clearly a great deal of ambiguity in the phrase “elite level sports competitions”. PZ has made no bones about this. I always try to be a positive influence to make the world into a better place, and you have been a great help to me in that endeavor. Sorry. Part of this is that SCOTUS Justices have determined that the particular purpose of the 14th can only be understood in the context of the end of the civil war and the enactment of the Constitution’s coincident Reconstruction amendments. All that information is very helpful. Some countries require them to obtain a psychiatrist’s permission to get started with the gender change. Austin, Texas, United States About Youtuber The Atheist Experience is a weekly show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist and atheist audience. Many on this thread want to skip the investigation. Having said that, if Tracie and Jen and Claire started blogging here… I’d visit every day. It seems to me to be special pleading to say otherwise. You have to be able to show evidence of real measurable monetary damages to sue someone for libel, and you have provide evidence that suggests the person knew what they were saying was false when they said it. No, we don’t have perfect knowledge of what’s been going on inside the ACA. As usual, you get straight to the chewy center when everyone else is still licking around the outside of the analytical tootsie pop. This isn’t that situation. When there’s fame, glory, and large amounts of cash on the line, it seems to be quite obvious that eventually there will be a lot of cis-male athletes who would lie and compete as women if there was no HRT rule for competing as a woman just because of the prize money. I don’t care who someone is intimate with as long as everyone consents (and that means you have to have at least 18yo frontal lobes- bc it’s just too much to require frontal lobes in humans to be 25yo to consent- and be of sound mind). The problem is that we’re not honest with each other about that process. Saying that something someone said or did is racist is a criticism. PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris. The same holds true for world records rather than average performance. This was never about someone being “upset” about messaging. What completely baffles me as a physician is why politicians and religious people and faith based reasoning people are allowed to practice medicine which is what any law is doing when it comes between anyone 18yo or older who is able to consent when they are meeting with their doctor. Thanks for the link again. The system is running low and questionably managed, then it’s put under great stress, then the control system (the moderators) cannot cope so it is removed before it breaks entirely. May I call you Sky Captain? Those at least purport to be based on how well the players can compete with one another, to make for an interesting and fair competition at all levels. What should we infer about your intentions when you are completely unable and/or unwilling to provide your definitions, despite asserting with apparent certainty that “exact definitions” would emerge during conversation? I know that as a reader that is a concern for you, but you’ve at least got to be able to recognize in the abstract that people are going to put some things ahead of readable content. What makes sports special? Is it about extracting the best of yourself? I don’t know why I said that. So testosterone levels determine who is a real woman? I was not personally that impressed with rational debate on the axp blog. How is this, according to your own approach, not silencing? ”. Yes, I think those words aren’t specific enough, but if you note what I quoted, where I really feel you went off the rails was articulating sports in which parity exists immediately before using the incredibly vague phrase “elite level sports competitions”. It is an absolute pisser. Sorry.”, “Sure, we don’t see it yet, but to suppose that we would never see it in a world without hormone therapy rules seems to me to be silly.”. I have a lot of thinking to do. That experience would be grounds for a walkout definitely. While “Rationality Rules” and some of his supporters in the ACA seem to have gotten a few things wrong, they’ve not been given the time and space needed to grow and learn. For utter clarity: quote the portion of my comment where I made an assertion about legality that was erroneous. So (and did I mention I think the 2nd amendment is obsolete, stupid and should be repealed?) I’d sure like to see how the ACA and the other hosts of AXP respond before they were booted from here. Your description of the contents was a little vague. I was raised by racists, in a racist place, and I’m surrounded by racist media and culture day in and day out. If not, do you think your statement needs some revision? It is UNFATHOMABLE (and now I’m in the ANGER STAGE OF GRIEVING!!) I do think it would be more useful to approach this pro-actively rather than re-actively and push them to do the same. ‘Cause, ya know, I’m a theist, not atheist. To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/rationalityrulesTo support me through PayPal (thank you): https://www.paypal.me/RationalityRulesTo support me through merchandise: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/rationality-rulesTo follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RationalityrulesTo tweet with me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RationalityRuleAnd, to watch / listen to my, Thomas Westbrook’s (Holy Koolaid) and Rachel Oates’ podcast: https://goo.gl/oFUiie--References:1). In some women can compete, in many they can not. You’re not lost. To add quickly before bed; Woodford does come across as a sort of a smug guy with that impregnable sheen of rationalist righteousness. I take a completely different approach to the question of silencing. My only suggestion is that to future-proof cases like this, there should be a more specific addendum that enumerates specific views, like transphobia, that are incompatible with “human diversity and equality” and keep it up to date with rightwing trends so it’s clear that a group has gone against the mission statement without having to explain why each time. “For it to be transphobic, that must mean that it’s at least factually wrong (or born out of malice), right? I’m mulling over putting brackets around every assertion about people in the male, female, man, woman, cis, trans box and asking where they learned that. That doesn’t mean I never use that angry voice, but because of widespread ignorance, I’ve found it effective to give education a shot first. Since it’s faster, they soon decided to call it a separate event. [emphasis mine]. Tracie, in particular, was an excellent host. “I am really puzzled why you call this a conspiracy.”. But I can’t do it on your blog as a comment, can I? It’s not a timeline, but you’ll get the gist of it. One important clarification for a friend. In your category, stage, league, format, division? curling again), and that therefore “advantage” would have to be judged on a sport-by-sport basis. Why should I care about your disagreement? The Atheist Community of Austin is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to promoting positive atheism and the separation of church and state. To Jundurg. therefore the comparison stands! Thanks for your awesome demonstration of compassion Tim! In football women can no longer compete when we would expect, post puberty. Thank you for your detailed breakdown of existing case law. Simply throwing out terms like “transphobic” instead of having a thoughtful and rational discussion helps no one. […] No one has ever said these were “old white skeptic dudebros.” They’re mostly young, fairly unaccomplished at anything, and quite full of themselves. […to silencing someone] It’s funny the way you leave out people who are describing the bigotry they see. was just your dishonest excuse. (Yeah, I know HJ says anyone can just email him with a response. He was against that. The stream includes all the shows sponsored by the Atheist Community of Austin. Calling for a boycott would be wrong because other people might actually be convinced by your words to see the target of the boycott in the same way you do. I think it’s best for clarity that I stay out of it. This kind of policing is abusive. And in the meantime continuing to blast people with labels attached to their person) they do not have enough information for to give (in some cases I have not expressed ANY opinion ant still am being labeled. Or are people saying the tilt is one way and the indifference of the rest completes the picture? So how many people do you think there are who, in addition to the 3 points I mentioned in the previous paragraph, have no desire to take any kind of HRT? It seems to me, and I’ve said this before in a number of places and a number of ways, that differences between average male performance and average female performance is clearly related to biology for only some sports, and even in those sports where a difference exists, which of those two sexes has the advantage will depend on the specific sport. In the comments to the above video, I said I was fine with removing AXP from FtB. They don’t need it, they just need a fair shot. And I know I have been remiss, so after this I shall shut up]. I’m trying to learn, and I think that I’m making headway. So. I just don’t buy it yet. In particular you argue that unless we are careful trans women will come to dominate women’s sports, and this seems rather absurd. I wonder if other states have non-profits running K-12 competitions the way Oregon does, or if other states have government-chartered organizations (similar to special boards created to regulate industries) that are created by law and whose members are nominated by an executive official (or even directly elected, like state utility regulatory commissions sometimes, but not always, acquire their directors). Did you remember to go pee last night after you brushed your teeth?” contains neither a shaming statement nor a shaming question, the quote, “Hey, that statement is transphobic. He made 2 videos that demonstrated he has big flaws in his reasoning. Gender is serious business for people. Refusing to identify who is responsible does in fact delay fixing the actual problems. I need people to define “god” very specifically before they prove that “god” exists. Essence of Thought has a video explaining the timeline of events. Can’t you come up with an ethical rule that doesn’t ban words? Again the irony. If you aren’t arguing for double standards fair enough, but I do take issue with a couple of things you wrote. (Obviously, questions like “are you cheating?” are still asked, but you get the point.) Give them the boot. OK, perhaps we have a very different standard for “gigantic” but from what I understand the largest gaps in records for women hover around 90% of the men’s world records, and less in a lot of situations. As another addition, consider horse racing (rather than “equestrian” events which are different). Otherwise you do have the ability to to comment about their posts, just not on their blog. Within hours of Rationality Rules posting his original video, the one RR himself declared as flawed, Dillahunty added this comment (emphasis mine): I’m not only “ok” with trans people, I love and support them and want a world where they’re equal, safe and not facing discrimination. I don’t know underlying biological mechanisms for it, but I don’t need to know the specific mechanics in order to conclude that they must exist, whatever they are. It may be that that alone constitutes a sufficient reason to sever the relationship. ad nigh-infinitum for all sports. This will let you search without being logged in. The person who you say offended you can also do the same and say they are the one offended by your statements. That’s the thing, if you say that a 6:2 cis woman should be allowed to play basketball, but a 6:2 trans woman shouldn’t then as much as you might try to wiggle out of it what is really driving your “concern” is the belief that the trans woman isn’t really a woman, and that is transphobia. Moreover, while my brother was amazing on the floor, women’s floor exercise has certain required elements and scoring elements that are different from those required for men & boys, and they would on average disadvantage men and boy competitors. Your position isn’t consistent with human behavior. I don’t know why it just clicked when you said it. No, he wasn’t Olympics-ready yet, though just before his injury he was one of a handful of favorites to win the NCAA men’s all-around that year, which is saying a lot because men gymnasts’ athletic peak is usually post-college in the mid-20s, and so gymnasts at the NCAAs usually get better every year and being a favorite before you hit your senior year is a big deal. You are what you do. One of the big problems with Christian-dominated near-theocracies is their transphobia. I’m not making the absurd claim that this would end gender discrimination in the society at large, or end all such conflict within sports. Find similar music that you'll enjoy, only at Last.fm. To HJ Meh. I believe the post concerned trans-women competing in the Olympics in women’s events. So… criticism is silencing, if you use certain words. Whether or not someone is racist is a factual question. I think you are underestimating the desire to transition that most trans people have. If that sort of discussion is not welcome here at this time, then I’ll stop. Essence of Thought has text transcripts of every video, including their recent one where a dozen former members and people associated with the ACA spoke out. Disclaimer: I consider myself to be a supporter of trans-rights, and I have no intention to propose any changes to sports policies because 1- I don’t know enough, and 2- I’d rather real stakeholders, the women, figure it out, and I don’t want to mansplain to them. John Morales Which is fine, but which is also why the only times I check your blog is when someone refers to you (whether on an OP or as a comment) and I want to verify the claim. How can you doubt this on the basis of the facts that I cited above?

Edward Abbey Anarchism, Your Anime Kin Based Off Some Weird Questions, 1937 Ford Sedan, Quartz Countertop Looks Cloudy, Oggy Voice Changer Pc, Donatos Frozen Pizza Costco, I Can T Draw On A Tablet,