Don't just turn the fan off when you leave because it probably hasn't done enough yet. Make sure it is not tripped off. It is AMAZING how quiet they run when installed like that and they perform as expected. Exhaust fans remove the extra moisture that can build up in your bathroom, which can cause mold, mildew and rust. Thanks. Good topic. First, it goes over a ceiling joist in the attic. Broken flywheel. For more information about Bath Exhaust Fan An example of an easy-to-fix mechanical problem is the failure to remove the packing tabs from your new fan, but unfortunately, most mechanical problems aren't so simple. I'm surprised that no one raised the issue of Energy Star approved exhaust fans. Precaution: Identify the exhaust fan circuit, turn it OFF and Tag it with a Note before working with the wiring. Putting in a bigger fan can overcome duct problems if it's too difficult or expensive to fix the duct, but fixing the duct is always where I'd start. A problem with your bathroom exhaust fan can spell problems for that important room. The tissue should suck up & stick to the grill. When I put new fans in I of course redid the ductwork. But quite a number of houses are in a humid climate where outdoor dew point is higher than the indoor dew point. Danko: Great points! A standard 5x8 bath with 8' ceilings would therfore be 320 cu ft x 8 ach = 2560 cuft/hr or 43 cfm measured flow at a minimum. Removing your old bathroom fan and working with your ceiling can cause an avalanche of dirt and debris to rain down. Use a metal elbow as is takes off out of the fan. Then it goes into a piece of rigid duct that goes right up to another ceiling joist. Isn't having a bath fan going directly into the attic doing the same thing, putting humid air into the attic? (Even with a bigger gap, though, you don't want to vent your bath fans into the attic because you need to get the moisture out of the house completely.). : Regarding undercut doors as return air pathways, Section 2.8 of the HVAC System Quality Installation Rater Checklist, Energy Star version 3, (Rev. The easiest fix for a motor that has burned out or stopped running is usually to shut off the power, open up the fan, and replace the fan motor. - Bathroom exhaust fans and range hood fans alike, essentially, are each just a motor attached with blades or propellers. I always like to tell people when laying out the ducts in craziest possible manner to imagine that they were soldiers who need to crawl throug these ducts to the end, and figure out which layout will exhaust them more. Dave’s Reply: I think I now understand my situation in our bathroom which I've been trying to solve in my own but I might be calling a home service to fix it for me. This electrical wiring question came from: Patrick, a Homeowner from Edmonton-AB Canada. Dryer vents are even worse than bath fan vents, but that's another article. I have a 1" undercut at the bottom of the bathroom door and the duct has one elbow at at the ceiling vent housing and then runs about 9' straight out the back of the house. Fully Explained Photos and Wiring Diagrams for Bathroom Electrical Wiring with Code Requirements for most new or remodel projects. Seen that happen a lot. Once the fog is gone from the bathroom in periods of high dew point, turn off the fan. Bathroom Exhaust Fan Even when looking at the air that fan removes. Licensed Electrician Shows How To Troubleshoot Electrical Wiring Problems with Wiring Diagrams, Photos, Questions and Answers. A bathroom fanâs size refers not so much to the fanâs dimensions as it does to its power, or how much air the fan can move. Turn the bathroom fan or combination light and fan on. How? Your source of knowledge about the world of building science, home energy efficiency, green jobs and more. If so reset the circuit breaker. As for the humidity outside being greater, that is the reason for installing fresh air ventilation directly into the return side of the AC, bringing in clean, dehumidified air. People who work on houses are a creative lot. The way it's hooked up the vent is pointing DOWNWARDS so condensation doesn't fill up in the vent. You can read it here: Return Air Pathway Study. The air doesn't go where you'd like it to, but it flows easily. It sounds like maybe the fan flow is hitting an obstruction that's deflecting part of the air back into the bathroom. These testers are essential when troubleshooting a faulty circuit as well. Press Esc or F10 and select âsave and Exitâ press Enter and allow your system to restart ⦠The accumulation of dust in the fan blades is one of the most common problems that may cause the bathroom extractor fan to stop working. Or, even if the bath fan was vented through a soffit, that is separated by 5 feet on either side away from other soffits, shouldn't this solve bath fan air going into the attic? 80 CFM Ceiling Bathroom Exhaust Fan with Light The NuTone Ventilation Fan with Light features The NuTone Ventilation Fan with Light features square lens surrounded by a decorative white grille that coordinates with the most popular ceiling white paints. Use a 5-6" duct, preferably insulated and run it "straight" up through the roof if possible. This will disturb the airflow more than anything. Make sure the fan won't overload the electrical circuit. There are plenty of nice timer switches available for this purpose. Try spinning the blower wheel by hand. That duct needs to go all the way to the outside to do its job. Mike E.: That's another good one. A typical bath fan is rated to move 50 cubic feet per minute of air when it's operating, but most actually move about half of their rated air flow. A project like this normally doesnât involve doing any electrical wiringâmost fan motors simply plug into a receptacle mounted inside the housing. Proper bathroom ventilation will not only limit condensation, but it will also help prevent the appearance of mould and mildew which may in itself lead to nasty health implications. We have had luck in solving problem # 4 by having the HVAC contractor install the fan housing rather than the electrician which is customary. Bob: Sounds like you've got your fans done right now. Here, instead of blowing into an open duct or open space, the air hits compressed fiberglass insulation. And if the soffits are open, isn't this humid air being exchanged into the attic, especially if there's a gable or ridge vent pulling the soffit air through? Having the fan exhaust into the soffit doesn't help much, as the ventilated soffit is the intake for the ventilated attic system. This design features a single E26 standard light socket, allowing for flexibility to choose an A19 bulb that works best ⦠Bathroom Fan Maintenance Before cleaning your fan, turn it off at the switch or circuit breaker. Get it checked out. When a ceiling fan won't turn, the problem could be mechanical or electrical. Wait 10 minutes. Don't forget privacy concerns. Building Americas has a nice article about this showing the results of an FSEC research study that coincides with your 0.5"/cfm recommendation. Flip the switch nothing works. It's a small bathroom. I'm really at a loss and frustrated, I'm tired of having to wipe the walls down after every shower! took a position of ductwork inspector on the first picture above. Answers to all of your questions about installing a bath exhaust fan and your bathroom exhaust fan replacement project. The electrician is more concerned with the mounting fins than efficient duct flow. The intention is to discourage the practice. Bathroom Electrical Wiring Obviously ceiling-mounted bath fans can have problems with crazy flex ducts. Turn off the power to the fan at the main breaker panel. Exhausting a bath fan through a soffit as you describe may be OK as long as there's no possibility of feedback. If the blower wheel does not spin freely, check for the blower wheel for obstructions. I figured is was less back pressure than 15' of 4" duct with a 90 elbow and a roof cap. Don't put the grill or cover back on yet, I'm not nearly done. The rule of thumb for sizing bath fans is 8 ACH (actual flow)of the bathroom volume. Even on a muggy day in Houston, though, bathrooms can have a higher dew point than outside - at first. ACCA Manual D (3rd edition),Appendix 1, para. You may also want to cover the counter or other areas if they are near the fan. The wire spiral that gives flex duct its round shape also gives it extra friction, especially when it's not pulled tight, as you see here, so the air flow just peters out. Unless your bathroom has a large gap between the bottom of the door and the floor or some other way for air to get into the bathroom, the bath fan will quickly be pulling against a pressure that makes it difficult to move much air. Or does that carry energy problems of its own? Then unplug the fan and remove the motor plate (Photo 2). If you go ahead and do it yourself make sure to turn off the power to bathroom. They work But they do not pull the air out the rm so they are not functional. After removing the cover from the fan, place it on a towel and vacuum it using a brush attachment. Is it normal or do I need to get the contractor back in? I may have missed it, but the most common reason I find in my area is that people, have installed replacement motors and they have them in backward. Itâs a top choice if youâre designing a bathroom that is beautiful and functional. Paint and building materials preservation. If it doesn't, then remove the grill or cover to see if the plug's cord isn't secured & caught the fan blade &/or spin the fan manually. A new kit from Broan and NuTone lets you cut fan noise almost in half (meaning the fan is barely audible). Oh, wait that duct was installed decades ago. A bathroom fan may be listed for installation over bathtubs and showers when connected to a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) protected branch circuit. They'll be lucky to get half the rated flow out of that fan. However, in small spaces, the ability to illuminate from above can be a major benefit. I searched YouTube and everyone replaces capacitors, etc. A1-2 and table A1-2 show a prety nifty table for sizing undercuts at a 300 fpm velocity. Larger, more powerful motors on high-CFM fans draw more power. Green Curmudgeons, Architects, and Outlawing Batt Insulation Barbara W.: You'll have to have someone determine why they're not pulling air out of those rooms. 3. I just got a new fan installed and it seems that it is blowing air out as well as sucking it in. Bath Exhaust Fan. Indoor temperature level Manufacturer recommended actions: 1. And one thing not to forget. Thanks Allison. Any help would be appreciated. Minimal back pressure. @John, even though RH may be higher outside than inside, even 100%, the dew point (which is what matters) of a bath exhaust is usually much higher than the outside dew point, especially in winter. Typically, this may be the case if you have lived in a house a while before cleaning your bathroom extractor fan. Here are 5 reasons why this happens. Exhaust Fan. The house has no basement or attic. Masha: No, bath fans should NOT be blowing air into the bathroom. These five problems aren't the only ways that your bath fan's air flow might be compromised, of course. A quick way to catch a blocked duct w/o going into the attic is put a piece of paper over the running fan and see it it can hold it. So a 50 CFM fan requires a 3/4" to 1" undercut, depending on door width. I wrote a couple of articles about this last year: An Easy to Fix Air Flow Problem That Can Save Energy - and Your Life 4 Products for Enhancing Air Flow in Dryer Vents. In addition to being more energy efficient, they exceed the current minimum code-required air flow and are generally very quiet. The fan motor is starting to go out and needs to be replaced. I've spent a lot of time in attics looking at problems with insulation, air sealing, HVAC systems, and ductwork. #7 ventless fan with deodorizer tablet @Mark: your point is exactly why "exhaust-only" ventilation is a bad idea in humid climate zones. Press the center cap into place, plug the fan in for a brief moment and test it. It could be the fan, the duct, the wall cap, or any combination. I figured I would have no steam issues in the bathroom with this set up, however, I turned the shower on, let it run 20 minutes, walked in the bathroom and it was completely steamed up, walls and ceiling dripping with moisture. Realistically though, undercutting bathroom doors is probably the only viable option for these typically small rooms that have the doors open most of the time anyway. The master bath has a 4" to 3" reducer then 5' of 3" ductwork with a long 45 degree elbow. New CEILING FAN CAPACITOR CBB61 4.5uf + 6uf + 5uf 5 WIRE 250V. Bath fans vary in design, but motor replacement requires the same basic steps, no matter which brand or model you have. Wonder if anyone can help with a problem I'm having: I'm replacing a small bathroom fan which didn't work well with a higher cfm version. Newer fans are usually equipped with low-watt compact fluorescent lights, or CFLs. Right? Then, go down & turn the switch on again to confirm the fan actually spins. Of course, the root of the problem is that the folks supervising the workers often don't know what they're doing. I just found this old discussion through a link on your recent Energy Star 3 article. Except when it doesn't, of course, as in in this case. I am also glad to see that E.T. Even the best bathroom fan canât improve ventilation if itâs thick ⦠Make clean-up easier by laying a drop cloth down on the floor of your bathroom underneath the fan. and one in the laungry rm. Please Help, I have three vents, two in the bathrm. Remove the cover and use a flashlight to examine the fan blades for dust and debris. Replaced the fan with a new unit. Tools Required: Basic Electricians Pouch Hand Tools, a non-conductive ladder and a Voltage Tester. Electrical Questions and Electrical Answers, Causes of Lost Power After Changing a Light Fixture. Usually, no duct means better air flow. I did write something about mineral wool this summer. And yes, positive pressure ventilation systems can help with the dew point issue. Checklist to help discover the problem and solution to help get a exhaust fan working again. The main bath has a 4'long 4" rigid duct going to a 3 blade "dryer" type outlet in the sidewall. Reinstall the center cap and the front piece of the fan cage before putting the fan into use. On Facebook recently you posted a photo from the Roxul plant in Ontario. Estimated Time: Depends on personal level experience, ability to work with tools and the access to the exhaust fan. Chris C.: Using metal elbows at turns is a great idea in any duct system. Thanks for your electrical wiring question Patrick. Still doesn’t work. Bathroom fan motors that grind or squeal as they run may have dry bearings. Can we look forward to something about mineral wool? Our sensor tolerance is +/-5% RH 2. Allison, A thousand thanks for doing this blog. My favorite is the magic connection. If your paint is peeling, this is a sure sign of excess bathroom humidity. When the fan does not come on, the circuitry in the fan may have failed. Electrical Question: My bathroom fan is not working. My bath fans were installed as picture #1 above. Because the fan is ⦠Nicer fans have LED bulbs for brighter light. If your fan blades still do not work then the internal bearing has worn out and you need to replace the fan. The biggest problem Ii se is the use of flexible duct. M. Johnson: Yes, that's absolutely true. I've seen them installed poorly by both trades, but you're right that it really should be the HVAC contractor's job because they're more likely to understand air flow. Did you see it? Insulate the duct. Ceiling-mounted bathroom exhaust fans use the principle of suction to draw odors, moisture and other elements up and out of your bathroom via a vent. Just wanted to question that conventional wisdom. BTW, yes, it is vented. The moisture from a bathroom environment will slowly wash away the original bearing lubrication. Lubricating the Exhaust Fan Motor. Just some more info. Is this a reason possibly to go with a simple wall-mounted fan (on an exterior wall, of course), like the Panasonic WhisperWall? When those cubic feet get hard to pull in, they aren't going out as easily either. The problem is when wood surfaces in the attic are colder than the exhaust air dew point... you get condensation. I assume that is not going to lose a lot of its cfm rating. Does the fan motor spin freely. If the duct is supposed to be going one way, the installer needs to install the fan housing with the duct opening facing that way. Where the contractor extends the flexible duct 15+ feet straight up and obviously over time it tears. Installing the new fan and motor only takes about 10 minutes, with no rewiring or duct work required. Keep every corner looking and smelling fresh with a new Broan or NuTone fan grille. Here are my "Keys" to get them to pass: Use next highest rated airflow for the rate you are trying to achieve. That's a bit unusual and could cause problems, depending on what else is in there. Of course, a tiny undercut would be a problem when the HVAC system is running, the exhaust vent is off and the door is closed. Due to the air passageway the fan motor assembly can get very dirty and require cleaning. What can be done to fix this problem. It is therefore very important to ensure that all bathrooms in your home are well ventilated.. Home electrical wiring testers are the sure way to identify electrical circuits and help prevent the possibility of accidental electrical shock. Thanks for raising the issue of how much undercut a bathroom door needs. You can see from the dark spot on the fiberglass that some air does escape, but it won't be much here. Why do you have a fan in the laundry room, though? Even the aliens realized importance of energy efficiency and healty homes. Not all bathroom fans have a light, and you may not want one. 2. I love your analogy of soldiers crawling through the ducts. A dingy and discolored fan grille/cover can be an eye sore to your updated bathroom. Yeah, I caught that alien lurking in an attic about 3 years ago. Scroll down to the table that shows the ratio of cfm to area for different configurations to find the numbers. When you know the ⦠SheetLock installs in half the time - watch the quick install video. Here's another fan with a duct that starts off OK. ...just as we get tired trying to find out how far this thing goes, the air inside gets too tired to make it all the way to the end. This means that you will likely have to do a bit more detective work to uncover the culprit of your stagnant ceiling fan. © 2021, Energy Vanguard | 533 West Howard Avenue, Suite E, Decatur, GA 30030, How to Spot Deceptive Heating Efficiency Claims, Combustion Safety 101: Three Types of Problems, How to Make a High-MERV DIY Portable Air Cleaner, How to Make a Good High-MERV Filter Even Better, 10 Consequences of Keeping Your Home Really Cold in Summer. Not much comes through. Great post and excellent blog. Bill H.: That's good to hear. Bam! Is the fan switch working, does voltage go in and back out of the switch, if not the switch needs to be replaced. What this means is that you need to run the bath fan with the door open for a while to get a decent amount of air exchange. If your duct gets too curvy your pressure losses will definitely overcome the rated pressure for the fan (might be good to post some article about fan system curves in a future to explain this concept in more details). Insulating bath fan ducts is a great idea, too, to prevent condensation inside the duct in cooler weather. Keeping air dry with a bathroom exhaust fan can prevent this. Airflow at exit outside is strong. If you experience a humming / buzzing sound coming from your bathroom exhaust fan, do the following: Remove the fasteners (e.g., screws) from the cover of the bathroom exhaust fan and take off the cover to gain access to the interior thereof, using either a screwdriver or other fastener device that is more appropriate. :). David B.: Ah, yes, the fan that's ventless by design. Electrical problems are a bit more difficult to diagnose, but they're easier to fix. What about when the moisture is high in the air outside anyway, such as on a rainy day the moisture levels outside could be at 96% humidity +. What an amazing resource. Not only does it have to make that turn, which reduces air flow, but the duct isn't pulled tight, which reduces it even further. I removed the 45 CFM fan & motor from the housing and left the ceiling cover and light in place in spliced the in-line fan in the duct work in the attic. Keep your ducts and grilles clean to have a good runnig power of your fan (the same as with your car). If the fan works, turn it off and unplug it. Run new 4 inch duct and a new 4 inch vent. Shouldn't a modest undercut along with the HVAC supply vent in bathrooms supply sufficient exhaust vent makeup air? Bathroom exhaust fan makes a humming sound without moving. Thanks! I've also seen why so many bathroom ventilation fans don't move much air. ... âBathroom Fan Not ⦠Air flow can be restricted on the front end of the fan, too. Does the fan motor spin freely. When installed in the kitchen over the range, they're called forehead greasers. @Allison: it's helpful to know how much undercut is needed so we don't go too crazy with this -- 1/2 square inch per CFM. What solutions are folks using for the bathroom return path problem? Danko: Ha! 80 CFM Easy Installation Bathroom Exhaust Fan with Adjustable LED Lighting ReVent 80 CFM (RVL80) with SheetLock is the ReVent 80 CFM (RVL80) with SheetLock is the perfect blend of high-performance, design and innovative, easy installation. Afterwards, use a dusting attachment on the vacuum to clean inside the fanâs housing and motor. Great big undercuts in the bathroom? Features, such as lights and heating elements, increase the demand. Some motor plates release by pressing or prying on the side of the fan housing. The first thing you need to do is to make sure that power is actually reaching your fan. A few drops of light machine oil at each end of the motor shaft may be helpful as well. Outdoor humidity back draft to the fan 3. The duct is clear, no obstructions.. What could the problem be? Donât forget to clean the fan. Video Tutorial on how to replace your bathroom exhaust fan in 5 minutes or less. Whenever you look for the flow rating of bathroom fans, do not forget to look at what pressure conditions they were rated for. As stated before, flex duct has a high friction rate, and it's easy for air not to have the oomph to make it through imperfect installations. Walt S.: That really long run in #3 above does exactly that - dumps what little air makes it there into the soffit. In some of the models of ceiling fans, the blades are attached with a ⦠And a loud or noisy fan can keep you from using it. It is often considered a gospel that these exhaust fans remove moisture from the house. What have you seen? The kit works on most Broan, NuTone and Nautilus bathroom fansâmost bath fans are one of these brands. Due to the air passageway the fan motor assembly can get very dirty and require cleaning. But let's follow that duct and see where it takes the air. In addition, ensure that the blower wheel is not rubbing against the blowe... r housing. 1. Wiring looks OK as far as I can tell, nothing seems loose or disconnected. Also, depending on your locality's building codes (if you have any), the IRC has for years restricted the maximum duct run to 35 ft or less (or the manufacturers recommendations) depending on the number and type of elbows in the line. A few drops of light machine oil at each end of the motor shaft may be helpful as well. Gordon T.: I seem to recall responding to your question about wall-mounted fans somewhere (LinkedIn) and probably said they're OK if they don't go through a building envelope wall. Is it safe to put a 4" to 3" adapter on and use the existing duct or do I need to run new 4" ducting? Every cubic foot (or cubic meter for those of you outside the US) of air that the fan removes from the bathroom must be made up by a cubic foot (or cubic meter) of air coming in. not only majorly disgusting but also potentially dangerous. Great info. That cheap little plastic damper on the discharge of the fan has been stuck closed from installation due to drywall texture or paint overspray. #6 - the fan hasn't been cleaned in years, leading to dust and lint buildup. 05)requires one square inch of free area opening per 1 cfm of supply air. The fan blades spin the wrong direction and no air is pulled out of the bathroom. I just installed a 135 CFM in-line ventilation fan for my 85 sq ft bathroom, this fan replaced a 45 CFM ceiling mount fan and light. Turn the fan off when not in use The possible reasons are: 1. For an incognito bathroom exhaust fan, consider the Hunter Sona Bath Fan with Light. I installed a ceiling fan and it would not spin, just hums. Unless your bathroom has a large gap between the bottom of the door and the floor or some other way for air to get into the bathroom, the bath fan will quickly be pulling against a pressure that makes it difficult to move much air. This decorative exhaust fan looks more like a conventional flush-mounted light fixture, but inside is a motor capable of moving 110 CFM. I know most models you can replace just the fan motor, but the cost of the fan motor is about the same as to replace the whole unit. And yes, dryer ducts are often worse. REASON: Though rare, one of the causes of a ceiling fan that wonât spin is a broken flywheel. Maybe he's not coming back. If the blower wheel does not turn freely, and no obstructions are present, the fan motor might be defective. There might be a quarter inch gap between the duct and the joist, not enough to let much air out. How to Repair a Bathroom or Kitchen Fan Motor. I don't know why this happens so frequently, but it seems that nearly half of the bath fans I see roughed-in at predrywall inspections are mounted so that the duct immediately makes a 180 degree turn on its way to the outside. How to use Electrical Testers Let the fan run since it is good to keep venting the house and the electric bill is minimal (approximately less than $10 per year) 2. Not sure where to proceed from here. Thought you would like to know since no one mentioned these items. The old ductwork is about 5' and straight, but it's only 3" around while the new fan has a 6" opening with a 6" to 4" adapter. From here, you should check the wiring. If you have a light fixture attached to the fan and the ceiling fan doesnât work, but the light does, then you know that the power supply is sufficient. In many ways, a bathroom exhaust fan is not unlike the ceiling fan you may have in your bedroom - only it operates in the exact opposite way you might expect. One more scenario to consider: ducts could be perfect to outdoors with no obstructions, plenty of makeup air is available, and the poor fan still not move much air. (But, hey, they have a radiant barrier!) I'm sure the installer just took his lunch break and will be back any minute to finish this up. Given the nature of the space and what its used for, your bathroom is by default a damp, humid place. The humid air is sucked back in to the attic. What to Check When a Bathroom Fan is Not Working: Checklist to help discover the problem and solution to help get an exhaust fan working again. As you say, if the soffit vents are doing their job, air is coming up into the attic there, so the air from the duct gets pulled right back into the attic. Thanks! I've replaced lots of this style broan fan and they are very popular. As you can see in the photo above, there's no duct attached to this fan. Can i drop down a foot to exit the room to outside,I am in the basement and do not want to drill through the header. Some fans also include a night light feature. Great stuff!
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